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Questions for the experienced guys - planning to Ukraine
<Happy New Year! Lengthy post below, but I hope it kick-starts the forum.>

Hi Scott, all,

Thanks for setting up this forum. I stumbled onto it during a recent google search. I've been a lurker on another dating/travel board, RooshVForum Travel (, for some time now to research other's travel experiences. It's good to see new forums like this created for like-minded individuals looking for possible long-term relationships in EE. The blog is great and still tons of information I'm digging through.

Quick background about myself, I live in southern California, mid-late 30s (though I've been told I look mid-20s, maybe the healthy eating and generally active lifestyle with the beaches nearby). My ethnic background is actually Ukrainian, with both sides (great grandparents) coming from Kiev and Odessa, so this perked my interest to visit EE.

I'm in the tech industry, and worked myself into upper management in a large tech corp over the past 14 yrs, now overseeing SW engineering, and doing quite a bit of business travel for customer site visits (mostly to China/Korea). It's a competitive field with an aggressive work culture (akin to the kind of hours at big finance firms in New York), so it's taken a toll on the social life. I've got vacation time stacked up from past three years. So I'm looking to reset priorities now that I've gotten close to where I wanted to go, and missing out on other things in life.

In general I've found it tough to find the right girl here in the States. As mentioned similarly in the blogs, attractive women are few and far between (at least for me, for any of the "looks" I go for, and SoCal is supposed to be a great area for it). Of the few who I find attractive, they have the wrong attitude & values for someone I would give my time. I also don't let them boss me around like they can other guys. Smile So I've been waiting it out for the right one.

The type of look that strikes me is darker/brown hair with light eyes, haute kind of nose (tall/pointy nose), and great curves (legs, hips, wide shoulders). I've spent quite a bit of time in China, and although in Shanghai I've seen several model types with long-legs, I would have a hard time there (pollution is not great either). Based on what I've seen in photos of EE, browsing some of the nightlife web-sites below for example, Ukraine or Russia might be the place.

I'm planning for a Ukraine trip this summer (June and July), with no expectations of necessarily meeting a great girl, but to anyway have some summer fun, a cultural experience, and create some film (cinematography is a hobby, 4K video is great).

I have several questions for the experienced guys, if you can provide any of your insights:
  • Originally I was planning Moscow and go through the Russian visa process (even though the city is more expensive - not a big deal for me). My thought is there would be a higher density of people than Kiev, with less tourists, more people, so higher probability of running into a great girl. I also heard the women may be more receptive to foreigners because of less perception of "sex tourism" than Ukraine, and have better general English skills. I canceled this off since the geopolitical atmosphere turned negative with the Ukraine conflict, recent western sanctions, and likely upcoming Russian economic downturn. Even though USD is doing well against the ruble, I figure it all would cause more hostility from locals and government officials (visas/police/etc), and if I met someone, it would just add lots of hassle and problems for future meetings.

    How do you feel on this, are there more advantages to Moscow that I should re-think this, or Kiev would be just as fine?
  • I wasn't planning on "pipelining" women up-front on dating web-sites or My impression was that I'll find better quality by meeting someone in person who I'm attracted to, in cafes, walking around, or in the nightlife (bars/dancing). Bad idea? Or would you say the quality is comparable online, or that it's actually harder to meet or break yourself into social groups in a short period on travel, so it's more efficient to pipeline instead?
  • I am thinking 4 weeks in Kiev (all of June) and 2 weeks in Odessa (early July). This looks to be the time when the summer nightlife options open up. Do you think this is enough time to meet someone and possibly start a relationship? I saw in one of the blog posts that some may have gone for shorter periods - 2 weeks.
  • Is it worth time to visit Odessa, or just stay in Kiev? I read good things about Odessa in terms of nightlife, relaxed/beach atmosphere, and quality of women. But would many of the girls be traveling with their partners on vacations, so less available women, more tourists/guys, or women less receptive?  Any other advantages of Odessa against Kiev in summer?
  • For Odessa, would you recommend staying in the city center or in Arkadia? Based on what I've read/trip-advisor, it looks like in the summer all the great nightlife is in Arkadia near the beach, but mostly families during the day. However, it looks like most of the nice cafes and people watching is 20 minutes drive in the city center, near Deribasivska Street, with outdoor terraces, but only a few nightclubs scattered about.
  • For Kiev, I was looking at staying near the Arena Entertainment complex at the south end of Khreschatyk Street. This appears to be within walking distance to the main nightlife complexes, as well as nice restaurants in the surrounding area. The other areas I've read is the Maidan Square or Podol historical district, but to me it looks like both of these appear further away from the main areas? Let me know your suggestions.
  • I've read a number of people recommend apartment rentals rather than hotels, especially for longer stays. I'm looking into this. I've found a couple good web-sites for searching:, There are some nice large apartments with jacuzzi, and in Odessa I saw a nice one overlooking the ocean on the 12th floor in Arkadia in a new building. Please share any bad/good experiences/tips in short-term renting.
  • Any tips for specific great nightlife spots in both Kiev and Odessa that you recommend? The high-end places look to be Skybar, Dali Park, Decadence House in Kiev, though I've read that these places can have prostitutes to avoid, and Ibiza in Odessa. I'm interested if anyone can share their general impressions. I found these web-sites nice to see a listing of the latest nightlife events, along with some nightly photo reports:

    For Kiev:
    For Odessa:
  • Any tips for the best non-nightlife places to "bump into someone" in both Kiev and Odessa? Any specific nice cafes to check out? For Kiev, I've heard just walking along Khreschatyk or Shevchenko Park.

As a travel tip, I've got Global Entry interview coming up (, to avoid the immigration hassles and TSA for back & forth travel. Do you guys use it?

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes time to reply back.


Thanks for your question. I’m sure that as time goes on and more sign up to these forums, you’ll get other opinions. But for now, here is mine:

You first mention that you find it hard to meet a girl in the States – let me say, that the problem is probably not yours. The problem is 90% American women. Our society has raised them to have unreal expectations and for the life of me, I don’t know how so many American Men can stand to be in relationships with them. I suppose that it is just pure loneliness.

If you are in decent shape, don’t have a night-stalker personality and you have a decent job, you’ll be able to find a woman in EE that is thinner (in better shape), more feminine, happier and will take better care of you than any American woman will. Bring on the hate mail. Even the friends that I have with the hottest American wives who treat their men (my friends) the best, they still pale in comparison to my Russian Wife. Just two days ago my best friend told me that he was jealous of me because he sees how my Wife treats me and how his wife treats him.

As for your planned trip to EE – while there is a remote chance that you might go over and meet your dream woman on your first trip, it is more likely that you will make a few trips. I suppose that all guys should have the mentality that this is more of a process than lightning striking. In my case, it took me 10 years to find my wife. Now, I found a lot of  8’s and 9’s and I could probably have married years ago, but I was really looking for my soulmate and I’m very very glad that I was very very selective.

Without breaking dating down to shopping, lets draw a parallel here. If you decided that you wanted to buy a house in Spain, would you only fly over to Spain for two weeks and then call up real estate agents after you arrive and ask to see houses? Or, would you call/email a half dozen agents and tell them when you’re arriving and how long you’re staying for and then ask them to line up houses for you to look at? The second option would certainly be a wiser use of your time and resources. That in mind, why would you just show up to EE and expect to meet a girl on the subway?

Probably 98% of the women in EE are NOT looking to migrate to the West. That being said, you’ll have to fish through 1,000’s of women just to find a handful that are interested in immigrating. If instead, you meet 20 or 30 women on an international dating website, then you’ll probably have meetings with like-minded women when you arrive. Actuallly, you’ll probably have more dates than time and you’ll have to cut down our list. If you know you’ll be in Kiev for a week and Odessa for a week, I’d email every woman I was interested in and tell them what days I’ll be in. Offer to meet for coffee only. If there is a spark, ask her out on a proper date. I’d meet every woman on my list and then decide who’s on my short list and then start dating them in the time I had left.

You’ve made the biggest step so far – the decision to go. Until you go, you can’t really know what it is all about.  But if you’re going for two weeks, you don’t want to sit in your hotel room for two weeks wishing you had dates. I’ve made that mistake and then walked around town trying to meet women at the market, at the bus stop, etc. Not a good use of time. If you are emailing with 20 women and you have lunch with girl 1, dinner with girl 2, next day lunch with girl 3, etc., you’ll be able to weed out who works and who doesn’t.

Of course, a lot of that can be accomplished by emails and Skype. Meet 50 women online and email with them a few times and then offer to call on Skype. You’ll know right away if there is any chemistry. IF there is: pursue. If not, walk away. Even if she says she’s interested. If she doesn’t want to touch, kiss, hug and be with you, then she’s only in it for a green card. You’ll know if the woman is attracted to you. If she isn’t – walk away.

Don’t be afraid to go to Russia, or Ukraine. The news hypes the crisis. You’ll get a super deal now, better than ever as the Dollar is once again King in EE.

4 weeks and 2 weeks sounds great. If, you meet all the women you have on your list and none pan out, get back on Elena’s or Cupid and change your profile to read, “I’m in Moscow right now. Who would like to meet for lunch?” See who replies. If you see a woman you would like to meet, do it. Meeting women in cafes works, if you live there. 6 weeks, it’s going to take a LOT of meetings to weed through women who aren’t interested in immigrating.

If you go to Odessa, stay in the city center. You can walk to the beach and a cab to Arcadia is cheap.

I would recommend to stay in the city center in any city you go to. Often, women from the countryside will come to the capital and will see the same tourist attractions. A woman from Siberia who’s in Moscow will go to the Kremlin. You can meet these women and its better than a woman from Moscow.

You’ll always do better with a country girl. More conservative, will take better care of you, less feminism and less drama. To find them, you’ll need to have a membership somewhere unless you do the Trans-Siberian Railway. I did it about 6 years ago and I highly recommend it. Met a lot of wonderful women.

Always rent an apartment over a hotel. You’ll save a ton of money making your own breakfast and coffee. And, you can bring her back to your place for champagne or wine after dinner. Further savings. Apartments are the way to go.
Have always meant to do the Global Entry but have never made the time for it.

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